S&S

[ceebee_eebee]

So, I'm listening to the Sapphire & Steel audios again and I just had a thought that's really bothering me. Obviously I'm not the first person to wonder this, but I kind of want someone to help me think it through.

Why are we so sure the Elements are doing the right thing? Why are we so sure that Time really is evil? Is it just because we're seeing these stories from the Elements POV? Because S&S tell us Time is evil? Because honestly, S&S always seem to end up fucking over everyone they get involved with and sacrificing a lot of innocent people.

So, what am I missing? What evidence did we get that Time is evil? Help!

Comments

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

That ambiguity's part of what I really like about this series - you know there are two sides to this weird, epic struggle, and you know which side you're cheering for, but it sometimes feels more than a little strange to do so. I guess you could also argue an allegory of some sort - Time as mortality, the Elements doing morally dubious things to stave it off.

This would be why I'd love to write an Elements-vs.-the-Doctor crossover someday. ;)

[amaresu]

I've never really understood how one would make a Doctor Who/Sapphire and Steel crossover work. The two seem to have such different myth bases.

[eponymous-rose.livejournal.com]

That's part of what interests me - the notion of a clash between the Time-as-destroyer idea of S&S and the Time-as-companion idea of Who. But yeah, it would probably involve some heavy-duty retconning involving at least some level of past interaction between the Elements and the Time Lords. And possibly Faction Paradox.

[amaresu]

I think if someone did it believably I'd read it. Or just something short where you can handwave things like basic inconsistencies. I've seen the latter done, but not the former and it would be interesting.

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

The only one I've ever seen was more to do with the TARDIS than the Doctor. I can't remember where I saw it. I think I thought YOU recced it to me, but that can't be right.

[amaresu]

If I gave you a link to my delicious tag then it might've been me. There are a couple of DW/S&S crossovers in there I haven't read. That's the only thing I can think of.

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

Time as mortality, the Elements doing morally dubious things to stave it off.

Ooo! I quite like that. I think what makes me even more reluctant to completely side with the Elements is the Transients. They're supposedly fighting Time as well, but...what? Is it some kind of bizarre three-sided war and we just don't have enough info to really judge the intricacies of it? I guess maybe that's all it really is. Lack of data.

Fuck, I love S&S. ;-)

[amaresu]

They told us so?

The personifications of Time that we've seen have been pretty awful. Mr. Face from Assignment #4, the child-thing from Mystery of the Missing Hour and Wall of Darkness, the watch one. All of which could be seen as just rather psychotic members of a race, like judging humans from a couple of serial killers.

On the other hand the darkness from Daisy Chain seemed malevolent and let's not forget Zero in which the goal was to destroy Earth.

So, I guess you could postulate an argument based on it's only the psychotic members that break through. It would probably make an interesting fic.

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

So, I guess you could postulate an argument based on it's only the psychotic members that break through. It would probably make an interesting fic.

It most certainly would! But then I want to know how the Transients fit into all this. Aren't they supposedly fighting Time too? They try to recruit Elements but just using different tactics? It does my head in.

[amaresu]

I think the Transients are fighting Time on an any means necessary front, such as in Zero when the plan was to destroy all the humans.

So I think the Transients and the Elements have the same end goal in mind, but two different methods. Cause the Elements like to not kill people if it can be avoided, it just often times can't. They do try to keep the body count down though.