Zagreus for the 8 millionth time.

[ceebee_eebee]

So, I know all anyone wants to talk about is Trek, but fuck that noise. All I've cared about for like the last 3 years is Big Finish, and even the brilliance of a new movie in my first fandom isn't going to change that. ;-)

My point? I'm listening to the Zagreus-era audios again and FREAKING RIGHT THE HELL OUT again. I honestly think Zagreus is a work of staggering genius. Sure, it's not perfect. There are things I would change, and I certainly think the last hour is too drawn-out. But...

Do I still need to cut for spoilers for years old audios? Ugh. Better safe than sorry.



Ok. So, first of all. You all know I think Colin Baker is almost godlike, but his performance as Tepesh blows me away. I'm talking shivers down the spine, must replay the scene a million times kind of blown away. His rage at Rassilon, his pain over what was done to his species, even while making it obvious what a monster he is in his OWN way. FUCK. ME.

I think maybe all the history on Rassilon is what makes this story arc work so well for me. To actually see (hear) the true depth of perversion and obscenity and genocidal lunacy the entire Time Lord culture is based on. Well...it messed with my brains the first time I listened to this audio and it still does. I think making Rassilon so CLEARLY horrific is one of the most dramatic things BF has ever pulled off.

Oh, and let's not leave aside the fact that I STILL FUCKING CRY every time I get to the showdown between the TARDIS and the Doctor. I think the first time I listened to it was the first time that I realized the TARDIS might actually be my favorite character in DW. And using Nick Courtney as her voice makes it just that much more gut-wrenching.

Combine that with Romana being massively (and unsurprisingly) bad-ass, the birth of Romana/Leela, Lisa Bowerman being UTTERLY adorable in her cameo, and Peter Davison acting his ASS off as Reverend Townsend. Well...I love this audio. I'm going to go so far as to say Top 10.


And then Scherzo...where do I even begin? I'd forgotten that Shearman wrote that one. It's one of the most emotionally painful audios I've ever listened to. The Doctor is so cruel but in such a perfectly...Doctor way. And even when he finally admits that he loves Charley, there's nothing romantic or kind or loving about it. It still hurts. I know people have issues with this one, but I think it's absolute tops.


But then we get the Creed of the Kromon. And I don't think I'm overstating it when I say there are aspects of this audio that I loooooooooooathe. I'm not a HUGE C'rizz fan but I think he's ok. And I love the Oroog to the point where I wish he could have been a companion. But they rape Charley in this audio and it's as if no one even seems to realize that's what's happening. They take her away for forced reproduction. Use her body against her will. Even the language the Kromon use when forcing her to ingest the liquids and shit make it clear it's fucking RAPE. And no matter how many times I try to give this audio another go, I still get horrified by how blase the Doctor is when the Kromon state outright that they are taking her away for reproductive purposes. I don't know. I don't actually think this is what Philip Martin was going for, but I can't seem to respond to it any other way. And the fact that she doesn't remember any of it at the end and that they never even DEAL with it again, just makes it all that more distasteful to me.



Anyway. I have no idea if anyone is going to read this or even gives a shit about these audios anymore. But this is what I've been doing all day and I had to share my thoughts, as disjointed as they are.

So, to sum up. COLIN BAKER KICKS ASS. ;-)

Comments

[mysticalchild_isis]

I haven't heard the Zagreus-era stuff yet. I really need to, but somehow I haven't gotten around to it yet. ::hangs head in shame::

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

I am both shocked AND appalled. ;-)

But honestly, whether you'll like it or not depends on how much you enjoy Charley as a companion and how much you enjoy BF audios that are arcs. I mean you have to listen to them in order, unlike with the other Doctor's audios. I'll be curious to hear what you think when you finally get around to them.

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

I was only saying to someone yesterday that I wanted to re-listen to the arc that includes Zagreus and Scherzo some time. I need to make space in my schedule next month.

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

DO IT! And then post thoughts. I need to discuss. I've done nothing this weekend but feel like crap and listen to these audios. I'm already finishing The Last. I'm thinking I'm gonna be up pretty damn late tonight because there's no way I'm going to bed without listening to Caerdroia. ;-)

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Heh, okay. Maybe I'll make notes as I listen and post it as a sort-of live blog. It'll have to be next month 'cos I'm tied up with reviewing for cot_reviews until voting closes on the CoT Awards at the end of the month.

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

I'll do my best to be patient. ;-) Plus, it's not like I'm ever NOT in the mood to talk about BF audios...

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

*grins*

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

i haven't been listening to BF lately and i should rectify that. i should do a re-listen to zagreus, since i've only listened to it once and that was about two years ago now.

agreement re: creed of the kromon.

agreement re: scherzo and shearman's AWESOMETUDE. i should do a re-listen for that too.

[dragonessa24.livejournal.com]

*waves* Hi, found my way here through the daily. Just wanted to give you a resounding HELL YES to all you've said about Zagreus. Colin Baker is too awesome for words, both as Six and as Tepesh, Davison perfectly pulls off Townsend being all reasonable about how completely out of his mind he is, and all the Doctor/TARDIS stuff is just heart-wrenching. Also, the constant Alice references killed me dead with laughing. Zagreus is a masterpiece.

Scherzo leaves me in this really weird state, because the whole thing is so terrible and horrible, but done in such an awesome and intricate way.

Aand I pretty much agree with you on Creed of Kromon as well - C'rizz is nice and I'm interested in what they'll do with him, the Oroog kicks ass, and what they did to Charley was absolutely awful, with the ending being way too rushed. I actually sort of lost my enthusiasm for Eight audios after it (probably because of Scherzo as well) and went over to Six auios, which I'm thoroughly enjoying and can't see myself quitting any time soon. I actually think they're more consistantly great than the Eight audios (up to Creed, anyway). Either way, I still have SO MANY audios left to explore, which is wonderful.

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

Davison perfectly pulls off Townsend being all reasonable about how completely out of his mind he is

Agreed times a million! His awesomeness gets overshadowed in my mind by Baker always, but hell yeah. He was incredible. That rant is pitch-perfect. The complete obsession is a thing of beauty to listen to. And then his horror at having been SO wrong. Mmmmm. LOVE.

I actually sort of lost my enthusiasm for Eight audios after it

I can see that. I've listened to every DW audio (I'm not kidding. Every single one) and I can say that the rest of the Divergent-Universe arc is a little weak. But I also think that Natural History of Fear is one of the most brilliant audios they've ever done. So...if you find that time you might want to check it out.

[ibishtar.livejournal.com]

Here from who_daily! Neverland/Zagreus/Scherzo were the first BF I ever listened to and I was bowled over. I didn't even notice how long Zagreus was. Still my favourite, I think. Their weirdness were the big selling point for me. I agree about the awesomeness of Rassilon, Romana, the Doctors in other roles and Eight's coldness in Scherzo. I also loved the Alice in Wonderland and Shroedinger's Cat stuff and McGann's narration in Scherzo.
That said, evil!TARDIS in Zagreus made me uncomfortable. I think of the TARDIS' sentience as ineffable. I find it silly to ascribe it emotions like jealousy or annoyance.

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

That said, evil!TARDIS in Zagreus made me uncomfortable. I think of the TARDIS' sentience as ineffable. I find it silly to ascribe it emotions like jealousy or annoyance.

Interesting! That's actually one of my favorite bits of the audio because while I don't think the TARDIS has human emotions normally, seeing her made to have them by Rassilon and whatever other forces were at work broke my heart. But yeah, the whole thing is just magnificent. I can't think of a single actor who didn't bring their A-game on that one.

[urchinmoppet.livejournal.com]

Zagreus: I completely agree, Zagreus is definitely on my own personal top 10, and there is no way you can listen to that and NOT be astounded with just how much effort and love the entire Big Finish team put into creating it. Plus, yes, Colin Baker as Tepesh was spine-tingling (I'm such a Six fangirl, and a CBaker one in general ♥ ) While I don't really much care for Rassilon in that for some reason I can never take him seriously (not the actors fault, because I actually loved the VA, just something about the way he's written), I did completely buy just how evil his actions were towards everyone because of how well the rest of the cast pulled off the horror of it all.

Scherzo: MADE ME CRY. And that's saying something. In some ways, Scherzo really reminded me of Waiting for Godot. Not in the thematic sense, since the two stories deal with entirely different ideas, but in a mood sense. That feeling of endless whiteness and quiet, and the way that both manage to keep you on the edge of your seat despite really only featuring two characters. But where Waiting for Godot left me depressed, Scherzo left me...well, crying, but still hopeful. I really thought Ms. Fisher did one of her BEST performances in this audio, because while McGann did do fantastically at cutting deeply, it was Ms. Fishers way of showing just how truly hurt and confused Charley felt that sold the story for me. Together, they were brilliant.

Use her body against her will. Even the language the Kromon use when forcing her to ingest the liquids and shit make it clear it's fucking RAPE.

THANK YOU! I'M SO GLAD I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO FELT LIKE THIS!!! I mean, after they literally SHOWED US just how traumatizing and degrading the entire process was with C'Rizz's fiance (she was begging him to kill her, how much more desperate to end the suffering can you get??) they then BLOW RIGHT PAST IT when it happens to Charley. I was rather beyond annoyed about that when I first listened, because really the entire story lacked of depth and that right there was one obvious place they could have worked with. Not to mention, you know, addressing just how terrible the actual process and actions were! Considering that most of Doctor Who is centered around addressing these kind of issues (and the fact that the Doctor should have been enraged about it), why in the world would you step over the opportunity when it's staring you in the face in favor of addressing the mental state of a newly introduced character?

Ugh...sorry, I just was really irked with the writing in that one. It made very little sense.

And yes, Colin Baker kicks ass ♥ Yay for another Big Finish fan! (By the way, found you through Who Daily)

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

Colin Baker fangirls UNITE! ;-)

Scherzo: MADE ME CRY.

You ain't kiddin'. The first couple of times I listened to it (and yes, I know, I listen to these audios WAY too often) I actually had to turn it off at some points and walk away because it hurt too much.

I was rather beyond annoyed about that when I first listened, because really the entire story lacked of depth and that right there was one obvious place they could have worked with.

That's it EXACTLY. After the power of Neverland/Zagreus/Scherzo, we get...nothing. Shearman did SUCH an amazing job of setting up the otherness of this new universe, of creating such tension and emotional power and then KotC does absolutely nothing with it. There was nothing particularly interesting about the Kromon, just another DW baddie-race. And then to go SO far into this horror of rape and physical assault (which really were the only truly powerful moments in the whole audio) but give us no payoff. Ugh. The more I think about this, the more angry I get. I'm with you. Total crap.